Anyone here good at political and economic philosophy and theory?

[erik]

Bill Still might be worth getting in touch with although the Quark people got to him first and he received a fair amount of criticism for getting behind that.  He's bullish about virtual currencies in general and views them as complementary currencies.  He's very much against the federal reserve and debt based money.

I think he would look at the decentralized nature of Nxt very favorably, but he's far from a cryptocoin expert so he might be wary of getting behind another coin.

[Tusk]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, the first rule of any economic endeavor is unless there is a need for it don't make it. So its imperative that you stick to your founding customers needs. The better you can align yourself to that simple principal the greater your chances of success.

While a gaming app may be entertaining it does little to deliver the real power of math based currencies. We need to identify areas in the economy where these new currencies go beyond frictionless neutral transmission tools. These opportunities are  vast thinking about them no is important to being able to navigate forward. This is the very reason for the emergence of Alt cons, the seek to offer something more viable.

I think the true power of math currencies is their ability to measure the transaction of of values, I see price as merely a ruler by which our values are measured. Math based currency will allow us to measure the impact of our values in the economy validating it with each transaction, By building tools to define, identify, interpret this will be the most valuable aspect of the block chain. Ultimately the math based currency that can best reflect the ecosystems values and feed that information back itself will dominate.


Lets look at what I think is a stepping stone opportunity to getting to a value driven ecosystem: - rewarding IP (Intellectual Property)

Currently we have two systems, traditional patent and copy write regulation and the open source model.
Math based currencies offer a programmable alternative that if aimed at serving customer needs it will surpass both and allow us to realize the ultimate goal of user values driven economies/ecosystems.   

Challenges
1)      How to encourage the sharing of ideas in an open source environment while still rewarding IP.

2)      Lower the barrier to entry into the ecosystems without increasing risk/liability.

3)      Measure the value of ideas, products and services, build models that reflect this fairly and reward the IP accordingly.

4)      Avoid regulation by demonstrating the value in voluntary user driven models that respect, demonstrate and communicate the exchange of user values is more rewarding then those that don’t.

Opportunities

1)      Make tools that let ideas collaborate into concepts.

2)      Crowd fund the concepts into products and services (this is the arena that Kick-starter and Bank to the Future now operate).

3)      Reward ideas based on their downstream application and reflected values by the ecosystem.

4)      By servicing the customer’s needs, we can do what Crowd funding is doing to the banking industry to the patent and copyright industries too.

The BitCoin economy makes this all possible via the block chain DNA. We can build apps to facilitate, capture, track and measure IP in meaningful ways, whatever sacrifices are made can be balanced by increased opportunity.

How do we do this?

Implement a protocol that attributes flags to transactions in the block chain. Provide tools that allow users who choose to participate, to track selected transactions, by sharing this information with the ecosystem. As long as mutual benefit is derived from the services symbiotic relationships are induced and reinforced. If not, the user will simply opt out.

Proposed Modelling System for Ideas IP

An idea is conceived and captured by a user into the system, others who view the idea, can choose to: -
  - Ignore it and move on to another idea
  - Support It
     - Add a supporting vote
     - Offer to contribute
        - Offer supporting idea/ideas, these are in turn voted on, ranking and nesting them in hierarchical order. 
        - A financial contribution
        - Offer to participate with materials or skills
  - Disapprove it
  - Add a disapproving  vote
  - Offer reason/reasons for your disapproval e.g. the idea already exists, this can be shown by pointing to a link of the other idea, if disputes arise appeals can be verified by consensus of other users and the time stamp of the block chain.

Each contributing offer is voted on by users whose preceding offers have already been accepted by. I.e. only offers that are going to enhance value will be adopted by others who now have a vested interest to see the idea progress into a product or service.

Once the ides become a product or service, all those who supported it can be rewarded. Those who only voted for it will get an improved rating (I will discuss user ratings in more later). Those who contributed can be offered shares in the resulting revenue according to the value of their contribution (The value of the contributions can be measured in the same way the ideas were, some principled values could be declared at the outset and the values will evolve with the Ideas).

In this way we can build opens source applications and measure the contribution, of individuals who contribute to its realisation. We can assign flags that represent these values to transactions related to the use of these applications, these are tracked, analysed and fed back into the system.

Let’s assume our idea has evolved into an open source software application. It’s a tool on our client’s BTC wallet that allows them to make micro donations to causes that most closely match their values (these values are declared in predetermined user saved profiles). By tracking and studying the relationships of flagged values on the block chain we not only provide useful reports to both the user and the ecosystem, we also provide financial assistance to user to supported objectives that match their values. User’s participation is voluntarily, by adding the app to their wallet they always have the option to choose which profiles if any they want to associate with which transactions. When the user transacts a micro payment is made, a portion is given to support causes that match the user’s values the closest and a portion is paid to the system for providing the service. Both the user and the ecosystem benefit from the interaction and in doing so, they both evolve.

User Ratings

Users can be rated and rewarded according to the accuracy of their voting and success of their ideas or contributions. This will do two things it will improves the quality of the IP generated and in turn strengthen the ecosystem.

   

[Tusk]

Values through Values

I would like introduce work by Jerry Schuitema ” Value through Values” the power of giving in creating wealth. The book was published in 2007, in reaction to the problems he saw in corporate philosophy: - putting the value for shareholders above the value of customers. His arguments were vindicated a year later.  Unfortunately the situation has not improved much but with the invention of math based currency we can change this.

The book focuses the relationship between transactions and values; there is a goldmine if conceptual models backed by filed studies and workshops. These models can be applied to the analytical tools that mine the block chain DNA. All we need to do is build the engine and the tools based on these models. Despite being written over 5 years ago its lessons and applications are more relevant today.  Raymond Ackerman had this to say about the book:- “The way of the future, the whisper of tomorrow, this is what business colleges should be teaching …This pioneering work is not only timely but deserves to be read and studied by leaders and students in the years ahead” – Raymond Ackerman.

Having spent over 25 years in economics communication, Jerry has consulted with leading corporations in South Africa; he has studied Economics, History and Political Science at a tertiary level, and management at the Oxford Centre for Management Studies.

I have had the pleasure of knowing Jerry for just over a decade.  Jerry and I have been discussing how his work could be applied to math based currencies. I think the hardest elements have been accomplished, the publishing of his book with examples required modelling tools and the BitCoin protocol. We would like to assist others to achieve values driven economies/ecosystems.

Communication’s strength is in its developmental abilities, not in its ability to manipulate. Technology will only really serve us to the extent that we stay focused on the primary aim of interaction: the empowerment of the other. - Jerry Schuitema

[bandar]

Opportunities

1)      Make tools that let ideas collaborate into concepts.

2)      Crowd fund the concepts into products and services (this is the arena that Kick-starter and Bank to the Future now operate).

3)      Reward ideas based on their downstream application and reflected values by the ecosystem.

4)      By servicing the customer’s needs, we can do what Crowd funding is doing to the banking industry to the patent and copyright industries too.


An idea is conceived and captured by a user into the system, others who view the idea, can choose to: -
  - Ignore it and move on to another idea
  - Support It
     - Add a supporting vote
     - Offer to contribute
        - Offer supporting idea/ideas, these are in turn voted on, ranking and nesting them in hierarchical order. 
        - A financial contribution

   

Spot on!  I've been thinking likewise for some time now.  If NXT or any crypto has a future in the financial and real world, it has to be sought in the small rewarding of ideas/contributions/services.

I think NXT missed the opportunity by its name.  Imagine NXT would be called or abbreviated by 'TNX' (thanks).  It could present itself as a rewarding system for voluntary services like media (the music industry, movies, etc!), anything 'open source' or creative commons.  Imagine every artist/performer/software-engineer/contributor/helping hand on your local forum could be thanked by a 'TNX' which represents some amount of money, but not too much.  That way your wallet would be a positive rewarding wallet for others who are of your assistance in some way.  Care to cash out?  No problem!  You'd still be holding on to some 'TNX' to thank others.  What is used now?  Paypal in some degree but not too much (bandcamp for music is an example).

The only big problem is the situation/position cryptocurrencies are in now: speculative assets.  Be honest here, the only reason why 99% of all of you/us want NXT or any altcoin to succeed is greed.  You hope that by sincerely contributing in any way (promotional or development-wise) your technology makes it so you can go fiat with xxxxxx% profit OR buying stuff with your currency which is still xxxxx% up its original value.  If people here would really have some integrity and mean what they claim when they say they are truly supportive of the idea rather than the profit, they would or rather should be ok with the idea that the current value doesn't go up but the technology gets adopted.  But that's another (ethical) discussion.

In order to succeed in such a thanking system (to some community/technology/users), the price should be stable and rather low so we don't end up in 0.00001 NXT.  If NXT (or rather TNX) would be worth around 0.01-0.05$, it would be a great way of thanking people voluntary in small amounts.

Just my 2 TNX

[Tusk]

Thanks bandar,

We must move away from the idea that we benefit at the expense of others, it is rather by enabling others to succeed we create further opportunities for everyone in the ecosystem. Instead of fighting over how the cake is divided focus on growing the cake. The math based currencies that facilitate, nurture and reflect this philosophy will prevail.

Here are some extracts from the book Value through values to demonstrate some of the principals that can be applied,


In the very beginning there was value-added. As well as being the oldest business concept known to humankind, it was the founding principle upon which all subsequent economic development was based, and it’s by far the most important. No amount of manipulation, trading shenanigans, corruption, insider trading, speculation and other misdemeanours can destroy the validity of value-added as (a) the only true generator of prosperity and (b) an inducement for people to behave in a values-driven way.
The illustration in Figure 14 shows that it is both remarkably simple and comprehensive. Let’s take the caveman story further; let’s say he found an already sharpened and shaped stone, as well as a stick and a length of vine or animal sinew, and assembled them to form a crude axe. The difference between the completed axe and the three loose items would be value-added. This would have entailed the use of time, effort and all things to do with the mind such as creativity, imagination, knowledge and experience. At this stage it’s a subsistence item, intended exclusively for personal use. So it was that for centuries most economic activity was purely for subsistence and therefore immeasurable. The axe, for example, couldn’t be given a single universal value

[Tusk]

The fact that the wealth of ecosystems depends on the value added by each and every cell of economic activity, and that this in turn depends on the contribution that the cell makes to its market, makes the generally light emphasis on value-added at company level both incongruous and puzzling.  The concept of sustainability may be the first nail in the coffin of the profit motive and measurement; value-added, I submit, may be the second nail and perhaps several more. Value-added won’t only protect profit in an organisation; it will enhance it. At the same time it can fully accommodate the social demands of a modern society. We shall see later that the full value-added statement, with adjustments to create a Contribution Account, covers all the key issues facing business today. Figure 15 shows what is drawn together in a single measurement.
The principle of adding value, which reflects contributing behaviour, gives a comprehensive and powerful perspective of the operations of any collective or company.

[Tusk]

The “why” stands on its own and ultimately is not negotiable. Anything that is done that cannot be traced back to the customer’s needs is questionable. The transformation litmus test is applied to the template. The “what must be achieved” are the three I discussed earlier, each one now attached to a myriad “hows”. For example “selling more” may need publicity, and this in turn can be achieved in a number of ways, such as placing an ad in a local newspaper. There are further “hows” as regards the content of the ad, when it must be placed, and for how long it should run.
I have found this exercise a very useful way of enabling staff to identify line of sight from every task and function through to service to the customer. It’s also good for examining systems, process and structure in terms of staff fit as well as efficiency. Given an opportunity to work with this template, a wealth of suggestions can be gathered from employees on how to increase wealth creation in their area.
The clearest effect of the template is in the definition of goals: sell the most, get the best price, reduce outside costs.

[Tusk]

The template can also be expressed as a value-chain model (Figure 18). This gives a linear view of the market-driven model discussed in an earlier chapter. It also seems to make much more sense than the profit-driven model, which would be expressed as in Figure 19.
The concept of the value chain has been around for decades. The one question that has never been fully answered is: value for whom? There clearly will be a significant impact in all areas of a company if it says “value for the customer” as opposed to “value for the shareholder”. In Business at the Speed of Thought Bill Gates takes a giant step further: he questions the relevance of the value chain and says it has been replaced by the value network: instead of there being one solid chain from suppliers to customers, each activity in the process is a contact point for the customer. Gates uses the example of motor assembly, where a vehicle on the line can be customised at the buyer’s demand while still in the process of being assembled.
In discussing the template in our workshops I’m always impressed by the dynamic of a collective such as a company. It’s an entire world of features, activities, events and thoughts – all potentially aimed at serving a fellow human being. I find it sad when people ascribe its existence to something as mean and mundane as making money. To me it’s like the human body…just as simple, just as complex, just as magnificent and mysterious.

If you study the diagram in Figure 21 you will see that the Contribution Account is a lot more than simply an accounting format or a set of figures. There is a clear and direct link between behaviour and outcome, cause and effect. I dare say there is no other format in accounting that does this so well. It confirms in detail the link between contribution and reward, or giving and receiving. Even at this “headline” level, it gives all involved in the activity a clear qualitative line of sight.

These are some extracts from the Book Value trough Values, I hope others will begin to see how easily apps and tools can be developed to flag and track these using programmable currency. By offering these to customers the value of the currency is enhanced.